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Law 2030 Podcast

This podcast from the Future of the Profession Initiative focuses on the many changes afoot in the legal profession and implications for lawyers, law students, clients and leaders across the industry.


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Claudia Johnson L’97 and Miguel Willis on the Future of Law, Technology, and Access to Legal Services

Season 2. Episode 10.

Claudia Johnson

Claudia Johnson L’97 has been focused on building the continuum of legal care and service delivery models for low income communities since she graduated from Penn Carey Law School. She’s currently a program manager with Pro Bono Net, where she led the adoption of online forms, making them a go-to tool for courts and nonprofits that need to serve and support those without attorneys. She is also a board member for the Future of the Profession Initiative.

Miguel Willis is The Future of the Profession Initiative’s first Innovator in Residence. He also serves as Executive Director of the Access to Justice Tech Fellows Program. Miguel holds a political science degree from Howard University and a JD from Seattle University School of Law. His entrepreneurial spirit, drive to innovate, and proximal experiences of growing up in poverty shape his lens to effectuate positive impact.

On this episode, they discuss how private sector leaders can partner with public interest organizations to scale access to legal services, why leadership requires a critical look at who populates the decision-making table, and why law students provide our best hope for transforming how the profession delivers its services.

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Gary Sangha L’03 on Opportunities for Legal Tech Entrepreneurs in a Changing Legal Landscape

Season 2. Episode 9.

Gary Sangha

Gary Sangha L’03 is a Law School grad and serial legal entrepreneur. He sold his first startup, Intelligize, and recently launched his second venture, LexCheck, an AI-powered contract review platform.

On this episode, Gary discusses the evolution of legal entrepreneurship over the last decade, skills lawyers who want to build a startup should develop, and why the legal tech landscape is booming and will continue to grow in the years ahead.

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Mike Avery on the Power of Human-Centered Design

Season 2. Episode 8.

Mike Avery

Mike Avery teaches Digital Fabrication courses at Penn’s Weitzman School of Design. He founded and operates draft works, a design studio and fabrication lab focused on bridging the divide between the field of design and the act of fabrication.

On this episode, Mike explains the concept of human-centered design, compares healthcare redesign with legal services redesign, and shares why he’s optimistic about the future of higher education.

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Rachel Dooley on Cultivating Creativity and Trust in the GC’s Office

Season 2. Episode 7.

Rachel Dooley Headshot

Rachel Dooley is the Managing Counsel for McKinsey Digital. She’s an experienced tech lawyer who is passionate about emerging technology, including quantum computing, AI, and data and ethics.

On this episode, Rachel discusses how lawyers in corporate legal departments can be more intentional in integrating design into their legal work. She also shares her thoughts on why creativity is important for lawyer health and wellbeing, and why trust between lawyers and clients is essential for producing great client outcomes.

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IV Ashton on the Fourth Industrial Revolution’s Impact on Legal

Season 2. Episode 6.

IV Ashton

IV Ashton is President and Founder of LegalServer and Houston.AI. IV helps nonprofit organizations design, develop, and implement vital information and knowledge management solutions.

On this episode, he discusses how rapid advancements in technology can create unexpected and transformational shifts in legal and how we can better prepare tomorrow’s lawyers to anticipate and respond to these changes.

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Michigan Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack on the Transformative Possibilities of this Moment

Season 2. Episode 5.

Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack

Bridget Mary McCormack is Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court and is a leading voice on modernizing court systems to expand access to justice and deepen public confidence in legal systems.

On this episode, she joins us to share her thoughts on how courts can learn from the experiences COVID-19 has created to better serve the public in a post-pandemic world. She also shares her views on how regulatory reform can transform legal services and why improving legal systems matters for the entire American experiment.

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Danielle Conway on Building an Inclusive Culture in Legal Education

Season 2. Episode 4.

Danielle Conway

Danielle Conway is Dean and Donald J. Farage Professor of Law at Penn State Dickinson Law. Dean Conway is a leading voice on creating an anti-racist approach to legal education and has helped those who work in law schools around the country, including at Penn Carey Law, develop better approaches for designing inclusive experiences.

On this episode, Dean Conway shares her thoughts on how the legal profession has historically excluded marginalized groups, how she’s leading her community through this tumultuous era, and how law school leaders can create more inclusive environments for all aspiring lawyers.

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Dr. Floor Blindenbach-Driessen on How to Structure Private Sector Legal Innovation

Season 2. Episode 3.

Dr. Floor Blindenbach-Driessen

Dr. Floor Blindenbach-Driessen is CEO of Organizing4Innovation. Drawing from her background in chemical engineering, Floor works with professional services firms, including law firms, to develop structured processes for developing and measuring the viability of innovation efforts. Floor has researched law firm innovation efforts, and she’s drawn conclusions about how firms can better structure and manage their innovation projects.

On this episode, Floor shares her thoughts on how leaders in legal can shift their mindset around innovation, and why many of these innovation efforts in law firms fail.

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Dr. Larry Richard L’72 on Law Firm Leadership and Lawyer Well-Being in the ‘New’ Normal

Season 2. Episode 2.

Dr. Larry Richard

Dr. Larry Richard is a graduate of the Law School’s Class of 1972. He is the founder and principal of LawyerBrain, which supports law firm leaders in understanding how lawyer psychology impacts organizational behavior and client service. Dr. Richard practiced law as a trial attorney for ten years. He then earned a Ph.D. in Psychology from Temple University. For more than twenty years, he has been advising the world’s major law firms with a focus on resilience, change management, leadership, and talent issues.

On this episode, Dr. Richard shares his thoughts on how the pandemic has impacted attorneys and what firms should consider as they create a vision for the post-pandemic workplace.

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Sanjay Kamlani L’94 (1991 Group) on the Evolution of Innovation in Legal

Season 2. Episode 1.

Dr. Sanjay Kamlani

Sanjay Kamlani is a proud alum of the Law School’s Class of 1994. He is the co-founder and Managing Director of the 1991 Group, a legal industry advisory, software development and technology business incubator that advises law firms on innovation in legal practice and legal business operations.

On this episode, Sanjay discusses entrepreneurship, how innovation efforts in legal has shifted over the last twenty years, and why he sees a DEI crisis on the horizon.

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Marion Leary (Penn Nursing) on How to Develop a Creative Mindset

Season 1. Episode 12.

On this episode of Law 2030, we hear from Marion Leary, Director of Innovation at Penn Nursing. Listen to learn about the natural innovative inclinations of nurses, Marion’s predictions for the future of nursing, what all professions can learn about user-centered design and how to develop a creative mindset.


COVID-19 Series: Peter Neal L’22 (Penn Carey Law) on Calculating CARES Act Eligibility

Season 1. Episode 11.

Rising 2L Peter Neal discusses:
* How he and his girlfriend made the most of quarantine by designing an online CARES Act Calculator
* New lawyers’ vision for the future of legal services
* How interdisciplinary legal education strengthens lawyers’ ability to solve complex problems
* Mindsets lawyers can adopt to better serve client needs


COVID-19 Series: Deborah Farone (Farone Advisors) on Ensuring your Firm’s Financial Health During a Pandemic

Season 1. Episode 10.

Law firm marketing guru Deborah Farone discusses the unique challenges COVID 19 presents for law firms as they work to generate new business while ensuring the financial health of their own firms. Deborah discusses:
1. How clients are reacting to firm approaches to legal service during COVID
2. How firms can more creatively use timekeepers in search of billable work
3. A strategic approach that emphasizes short-term survival and the development of practice areas that might emerge after the pandemic subsides


Jonathan Petts L’07 ( on Connecting Individuals with the Legal System Through ‘Upsolve’ and ‘Immigrants Like Us’

Season 1. Episode 9.

Jonathan Petts L’07 discusses how he and colleagues created two online platforms—Upsolve and—to better connect individuals with the legal system. Listen to learn:
1. How Jonathan and his co-founder used a “Turbo Tax”-like workflow to eliminate the financial barrier to bankruptcy protection for consumers.
2. Why Upsolve’s nonprofit status actually helps consumers find it more easily and grow its impact.
3. How Jonathan’s approach to Upsolve was transferable to immigration work.
4. Jonathan’s vision for and the future of legal services.


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